okay people here is the deal. I have been wondering how the quarians got political majority for attack on the geth (in mass effect 3). So far I have come to this. Since there is not unanimous agreement amongst the admirals the conclave must decide this question. Since there is representative form each ship based crew size. The civilian part of the fleet must have the majority. but admiral Koris says in mass effect 3 that the civilian fleet do not have the majority. What am I missing here?(oh and sorry it this is the wrong place to ask in that case just tell where to ask it.) Ecirt (talk)
Tali elaborates on that. Since it was a purely military matter, the Admiralty Board had full authority. Hence it came down to politicing among the admirals. Koris was against, Gerrel was for, Tali was, reluctantly, for, Raan was for, and Xen was eagerly for to test her new toys. Two "hawks", one pacifist and two people just holding the party line. - MA4585159 (talk)
That can happen the admiralty must be in unanimous agreement to overrule the conclave it says so in the codex:
"The Admiralty defers to the Conclave's decisions in most circumstances. However, if all five members agree a Conclave decision jeopardized the survival of the fleet, and cannot get the Conclave to address their concerns, they have the right to summarily overturn the legislative decision. After the Admiralty uses this extraordinary power, they must resign. If the Admiralty does not step down after using their veto the rest of the military is obliged to arrest them."
False presumption here is that the Conclave would have any say in the decision. The Migrant Fleet is ultimately under permanent martial law, and matters of fleet security cannot be resolved by committee; plus, the decision to go to war was a result of an advanced ECM system being developed; I don't see the military publicising this fact among representatives of all ships, such classified information is at best shared with a specific parliamentary subcommittee. - MA4585159 (talk)
Well look at the codex entry(copy from this very wiki) if the military tried that they would have committed treason. So unless the were a military coup before the attack and Koris would had said if there were. There got to be another explanation.Ecirt (talk)
Again, jurisdiction issues? It's not stated that the Conclave have jurisdiction over military matters - and, in fact, trials for treason are ran by the Board, which means that the Conclave is not the sole authority in the Fleet - so it's completely legal for them to make that call.
Also, are you certain they would fail a Conclave vote if there was one?
Again the only time the admiralty can overrule the conclave is if they unanimously agree that is a fact.
To the second argument: this is the quarians we're talking here. All of their people live on ships, and all of their ships are armed. Under our real-life conventions, that makes them combatants. And the civilian captains are in a panic after weeks of open combat, and were not decidedly against turning their life-ships into artillery platforms.
Also, what I'm trying to tell you is that the Admiralty is not overruling the Enclave. It hasn't been thoroughly clarified, but the Admiralty are the bloody heads of state. The Codex leaves enough basis for conjecture that they handle "immediate matters of security", and not all real-life states require parliamental approval for declaration of state of war.
It do not say that the admiralty have any political power if they do not unanimously agree. If it is so obvious why do you not show where it says so. And the civilian fleet is not armed that happen after they decided to go to war so does the panicking. Ecirt (talk)
First, I get your point. Second, it has been stated, mulled over and condemned/approved that all quarian ships have been armed, making them targets, whether to fight the Geth or the Reapers - Gerrel had raided Blue Suns facilities for dual-purpose materiel usable to build axial cannons as early as September 2186. See here. He then promptly refused Citadel inspection, suggesting an ongoing arms buildup. Quarians on Pilgrimage had been istructed to stock up on barrier generators and supplies. All that shows premeditation, and it's hard to arm up a freighter in the middle of a warzone.
So, let's get back to the argument:
- The Codex does not explain the full extent of the power of the Admirals and the Conclave (quote: "Due to the quarians' precarious existence and the need to enforce strict rationing, government is somewhat autocratic. The Migrant Fleet's operations are directed by the Admiralty, a board of five military officers who are advised by a legislative body called the Conclave.")
- Tali states the aforementioned opinions of the Admirals in ME3
- There is no indication that a military coup has happened. If it did, Koris wouldn't shut up about it.
Based on this: the matter was decided on by a majority vote of the Admirals, there was no coup, so the Conclave either had no say in it or supported the action.
- Also, we don't really know how the Conclave is set up. It is not a totally democratic body; representation is based on ships, then by population. As such, it overrepresents the heavy and patrol fleets, which have large numbers of less-populated ships. As such, it's far from given that the Conclave would oppose an assault on the homeworld, particularly once the possibilty of the quarians actually winning was dangled in front of them. Luper567 (talk)