You're hacking the computerized controls, not the pilot. With the controls at your disposal on your omnitool, the gearshifts and levers in the cockpit might as well be like the toy steering wheels you stick to the back of the driver's seat so your five-year old can pretend like he's the one driving. RShepard227 (talk)
- You beat me to that answer. Unless a system has a VI defense suite, or an opperator actively engaged in cyber warfare, then any system can be "sabotaged" EDI has multiple suites that allow her to attack and defend against cyber wars while Joker engages other ships in a more physical realm. After the unshackling of her AI, EDI can now do both (or all three if you prefer). Byrdology (talk)
- The problem is that a vehicle or mech like the Atlas shouldn't have anything that's subject to external overrides like that, it defeats the purpose of having a pilot in the first place. The best you realistically should be able to do with any sabotaged unit that's not set up to receive external commands (so geth would still be vulnerable, as would the Sentry Turret) is to block its communications and sensors and foul up its IFF. The computers that control its weapons and movement have no reason to be hooked up to anything that could send and receive data from the outside. 6thLyranGuard (talk)
- It still boils down to the hackers ability to override the firewalls and security measures of the object being hacked... Sabotage is not a common skill which means that there are only a few combat hackers that are able to do it in the first place... I am sure that there are safe guards in place, but the hacker is shown to be more skilled. Byrdology (talk)
- Let me use an analogy: what Sabotage does to the Atlas is basically like someone figuring out how to hook up to a person's XM Satellite Radio receiver, and then using that connection to override the brakes, accelerator, and steering wheel. It's not physically possible to do that because even if you could somehow remote operate the satellite radio system, it's not connected to those other systems in any way that would allow it to send signals capable of altering anything. 6thLyranGuard (talk)
- It should be mentioned that nearly every device found in the field, from the mechs to the small arms the troopers use, have computers that can be interfaced with via omni-tool. A skilled enough hacker can therefore use an omni-tool to mess with just about any piece of tech on the battlefield. Terminator-HIX
- KITT from Knightrider (who still remembers that?) could activate the breaks of an enemy motorcycle and that was totally a mechanical system.
- There are cars nowadays that can activate the brakes if they sense something is in their path. There's also technology now that makes it so cars can parallel park on their own, without any assistance from the driver other than a press of the button on the steering wheel. This is ~170 years in our future that we're talking about. Just because it's not common now, it doesn't mean it isn't commonplace in the future. DDCris (talk)
- It doesn't matter what the computer system in the car can do on its own- you simply can't hack a system that you don't have a connection to. If a computer system isn't connected to a network, you can't remote access it. There shouldn't be remote access to an Atlas mech's guns or arms, the only reason you'd install a program like that is if you had pilots of such questionable loyalty that it was reasonable that their commander would have to assume direct control over their unit, and Cerberus doesn't have that problem. Shepard using an omni-tool to hotwire an Atlas makes sense. Shepard using an omni-tool to run the Atlas as if he/she was using a Gameboy doesn't. 6thLyranGuard (talk)
- Theres also the simple fact of how devices are manipulated in the ME universe, look at how Joker flies the normandy, and how Kasumi flies the sky car in ME2 they all have virtual interfaces which read the gestures of the driver and translate these gestures into commands for the machine. Who's to say that in Sabotaging the Atlas Shepard isn't just manipulating the sensors which read the driver's gestures, taking the sensor's offline and switching control of the mech over to a VI similar to that of a combat mech?
- The interior of the Atlas shows a pair of physical control sticks rather than the virtual console used on the Normandy and other ships. 6thLyranGuard (talk)
For the record, I agree with what you're saying, mostly. I think the idea of using sabotage to turn an Atlas into a remote control tank is silly. However, what I'm trying to say is that we can't just say it's impossible or doesn't make sense just because we don't understand it. Before I started taking my optic science classes, there's a lot of things that are in the works or out now that I'd say the same thing about. With a strong enough phone, someone can hack into a weakly secured computer system and do some serious damage. There was a case a while back of a security testing that lead to someone using their laptop to hack into the onstar system to unlock a car that had that capability enabled. Ever since technological communication went wireless, things have changed. Can connections to closed networks be made remotely? I can't say that for sure but we don't know if an Atlas is connected to nothing else. There isn't too much we can see of the inside of it and something tells me it doesn't have an ignition key. But that's speculation, like most of this discussion.
tldr; Is it kinda silly? Yeah. Does it not make sense that it's doable? In a time period where you see more people with omni-tools than desktops and hackers can do a lot of interesting things with their omni-tools, I wouldn't be so quick to rule it out. DDCris (talk)
I think what Lyran is trying to say is that the Atlas's systems should not be hackable without a direct line. Why would you connect it into a wireless system that can be accessed to hack? Hacking the Atlas would be like hacking a persons red dot scope or NVG's. While the items are technology they aren't connected to anything but the users own interface. The only counter point I can make to that is that the atlas may have a wireless reciever to give the pilot information about the troops in its vacinity since his view is so restricted which could serve as the point of entry for enemy hackers. Don't want to have him backing up and squishing anyone now do we? Regardless of all this I think the ME world is seriously lacking in firewall and security tech if someone can destroy things with the flick of the wrist on an omnitool. KaedAemoh (talk)
I can agree on that last part. A lot. With as much cyber warfare as we see throughout the three games, there comes a point when you wonder if Kasumi, EDI, Tali and the rest are all just really far ahead of the curve or if everyone in the Milky Way really needs to invest in better security. DDCris (talk)
I don't know if I would say thateveryone in the galaxy is lacking in security technology. It seems to me that most of the characters who can reliably hack and crack into things are either explicitly said to be extremely prodigious in those matters (e.g., Tali, Kasumi) or they're characters who have intrinsic qualities to them that allow for a bit of rule-bending or -breaking (e.g., Legion). Or to put it another way: if everyone you know is wealthy, it might soon start seeming to you as though everyone is wealthy, period, but obviously, that isn't the case.
Ok SO something with as many moving parts as the Atlas, The auto loader on the assault cannon, targeting for the Rockets, pressure for the feet. Has to have some sort of VI to run. That's what Sabotage takes over. It's not really that difficult to think over if you just have an open mind. Commander Cole5 (talk)
- Sure, but that VI could be kept on a closed system that's isolated from the systems that have connections to the outside world, like the IFF and communications systems. It's like lockpicking- if there isn't a door with a lock on it for you to pick in the first place, your lockpicking skills aren't going to allow you to break in. 6thLyranGuard (talk)
- Unless the Sabotage command launches an EMP as well as a Data bomb. It would kill any firewalls, and psychically infect something. And Everything has wireless connection. How else would they communicate? Even if its tight beam they still have Incoming outgoing data.
- Any EMP strong enough to fry the firewalls would also fry the rest of the systems. And it still wouldn't allow you to wirelessly connect to something that didn't have a wireless receiver. 6thLyranGuard (talk)
did you know that the USA army is managing to develop a system to remote control computers without an internet connection, and even computers without power, using a system of electromagnetic waves? if we are about to do it in 2012, why shouldn't be done in 2187?
- Citation needed. I mean, really, control computers without power? Without power a computer is just a paperweight. 6thLyranGuard (talk)
- Without power a computer has no firewalls. All the important data is stored on an electro magnet called the Hard Drive. It's why if you need to fry a computer, you run a powerful magnet along the brain.
- But how would they access it if the computer is without power? If it was merely "off" I'd understand since computers are rarely completely off nowadays, unless they're unplugged. I tried looking this up and didn't find any results. DDCris (talk)
- (Looks above at the "Uses Electro Magnetic waves part") They would use the EM to change the way the hard drive stored the data, to a way they could easily get when it was powered up.
- That's not the same thing as controlling the computer when it doesn't have power. And with a continued lack of citations I find it dubious that it could be done with enough precision to allow an unregistered user access to the systems without corrupting most of the data. 6thLyranGuard (talk)